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DavaoSale.com Online Advertising - • View topic - ADAM'S 2 WIVES..1st Lilith??....EVE WAS 2ND WIFE? YES? NO?
 

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<  Spirituality  ~  ADAM'S 2 WIVES..1st Lilith??....EVE WAS 2ND WIFE? YES? NO?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:00 pm
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No, I'm not upset of the things you presented. I'm upset of the way you present your "so-called facts and truths".

So what's your point in presenting those arguments if your intentions are not to help the readers? Ah, I got it, you're conspiring. If your intention is not to help bcoz it's not your job, then it maybe the opposite. Am I right? I hope not!

You, who claimed to be more closer to the truth, would it be better that you help those who are far from it?

I'm much more inclined to believe these quotations that the things you presented:

"He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors" - Thomas Jefferson

"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." - Winston Churchill

Yes, there it is! The bible was attacked for centuries. Countless inconsistencies presented. Stories were fabricated against it. But in the end, it withstood for centuries and still transforming lives and revered by many as God's Word. How's that? Well, because it's the truth and the truth will always prevail no matter what.


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when its right down to it...
how do we know anything at all is a fact lol..

its a holographic universe.
and your thoughts create reality.
like a quantum physics experiment... just the simple act of observation..changes the results..

who we really are and the true power mankind surely possesses.. is hidden..
like ancient technology..



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It's ironic that there's abundance of these "Sumerian facts" but only few believe it? Why is that? Well because it is so absurd. You think that people who believe in the bible are fools, idiots, moron, or whatever you called them. Well, so sad that majority of earth's population were fools bcoz they chose to believe on the bible and the company of intelligent people are few and that includes you, who believes the "real truth".

The oxymoron is, the fools are the well-advanced or intelligent bcoz they managed to make world advancements and still exist but the well-advanced were the fools bcoz they became extinct and nowhere to be found but only through Google, and still hardly convince the people with their lots of evidence. Ironic isn't it?



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hmmm..

christianity isnt the only religion on earth.

one of the 1st death-Resurrection-afterlife for eternity..
can be found in early egyptian religion.. that of Osiris.. later-Christ is given the same qualities and sequence of events.

It's ironic that there's abundance of these "Sumerian facts" but only few believe it? Why is that?... because they have just been recently discovered and translated in this century.. they don't have 500 years of murderous Inquisition and Crusades behind them to attract (enforce) a following lol..

no.. we are not well advanced or intelligent. because there's still things we don't know.
most things.. are just only a RE-discovery..@.."theres nothing new under the sun".. in the days of Noah.. shall be again..
Noah wan't radioactive lol...

the Earth's ruling familys.. use the bible like a movie script.. like Revelations...
wars unfold.. bomb Iraq... the original Edin.. erase all records lol..
......................
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/s ... yama-japan
Japan's first lady: 'Venus is a beautiful place'
Miyuki Hatoyama, wife of the new PM, on UFOs and meeting Tom Cruise in a previous life

Miyuki Hatoyama . . . 'While my body was asleep, I think my soul rode on a triangular-shaped UFO'. Photograph: Kyodo/Reuters
--
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 80888.html
I have been abducted by aliens, says Japan's first lady
But it is her claim in a book entitled "Very Strange Things I've Encountered" that she was abducted by aliens while she slept one night 20 years ago, that has suddenly drawn attention following last Sunday's poll.

"While my body was asleep, I think my soul rode on a triangular-shaped UFO and went to Venus," she explains in the tome she published last year. "It was a very beautiful place, and it was very green


who is to say it wasn't true?



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what u need to know about religion with Dr Ray Hagins AMAZING
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYCDu9R-yKE

how the bible story was copied, stolen, from african religion- and returned as a white peoples religion. where jesus was made up from Africa's Horus..
Osiris... the Egyptian Resurrection story... stolen and applied to Christ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTwlGoxFiSM



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:56 am
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Sumerian facts recently discovered, isn't it? Or just recently formulated to fight against the truth because for centuries they tried to discredit the bible but they couldn't so they came up with various schemes and stories just to disprove the thing they couldn't destroy.

And if you claimed that the bible was just made up stories then you think they don't know about these sumerian and egyptian facts? I don't think so.

How come people forget the most important events of our world? How come people forget the things most valuable facts in our history? Do you think people just forget about tons of evidences and stories about sumerian and egyptian facts in the past? That's ridiculous.

It so absurd to think that people in the past possessed these stories and facts but when they were presented a book (bible) then they forget about sumerian stories? Is that what you think happen? Foolishness!

You still don't get it, do you?

These stories of resurrection were everywhere as you claimed it. Recorded in sumerian tablets, egyptian manuscripts and tablets but people still hardly convince about it but when the bible presented a resurrection story, BOOM! It went throttle.

Don't you know that the resurrection story is the most important and crucial aspect of Christianity? It is what holds the faith of the believers bcoz without it, their faith is futile.

So it would be expected also that people in the past believed so much about these resurrection stories of Egyptians and Sumerians cling to it. And you'll tell me that as the time pass by, ancient people lost interests about it and it was just recently discovered? Oh, come on bro.

Why it didn't went off like a bomb like the resurrection story of Christianity? Well because these resurrection stories were just fabricated and just a copy of the Jesus' resurrection! Not the other way around. So stop these nonsense facts!

And about the dates. Carbon-dating, isn't it? Only an idiot believe all of these lies. We can't even remember sometimes that it's our birthday! LOL

Haven't you wondered how they figured out the exact date of these sumerian and egyptian tablets? Even a Mathematical calculation and astronomical equation are hardly convincing how much more with this carbon-dating method! LoL

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Sumerian facts recently discovered, isn't it? Or just recently formulated to fight against the truth because for centuries they tried to discredit the bible but they couldn't so they came up with various schemes and stories just to disprove the thing they couldn't destroy.

And if you claimed that the bible was just made up stories then you think they don't know about these sumerian and egyptian facts? I don't think so.

How come people forget the most important events of our world? How come people forget the things most valuable facts in our history? Do you think people just forget about tons of evidences and stories about sumerian and egyptian facts in the past? That's ridiculous.

It so absurd to think that people in the past possessed these stories and facts but when they were presented a book (bible) then they forget about sumerian stories? Is that what you think happen? Foolishness!
------------------------

from yur reply..its obvious you havent studied timelines, or have studied anything about Sumer or Mesopotamia. let alone Egypt. and have no clue of timelines, years or centuries. but... its ok.

did you know that the bible wasnt compiled, and didnt exist before 300AD?
as where Egyptian culture and history goes back atleast 3,000 years before the bible was ever compiled.

go back and study some history.
then i will be happy to entertain your comments..



????? MYTH??...hahaha...wonder why they put that..


i'm sorry, but by what you have typed... i can tell you know very little about history..
or who Osiris or Horus was.. i can't talk about things you know nothing about.... sorry



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yes...without belief in Resurrection..many have nothing. It is a corner stone of christian Faith.. the story was stolen from Egypt..its called the Resurrection of Osiris..died.. re-erected on the 3rd day.

Osiris & Christianity - The Christian Adoption of Egyptian Iconography, Symbolism, and Myth
Published on Jun 12, 2013
The Christian adoption of Egyptian myth. How early Christianity grafted the Egyptian Isis - Osiris symbols and stories on to the newly forming Christian religion.


Isis virgin mother osiris resurrected after 3 days ,,,,,historians agree with zeitgeist
Uploaded on Aug 21, 2010
isis is the original virgin mother and osiris was resurrected after the 3 days OUOTE from historians jesus god is also virgin birth is refered to as parthenogenesis in history and scholary world.

Christianity is a Egyptian Myth - Horus=Jesus, Isis=Mary, Osiris=God, Amun=Amen, Apophis=Devil


Archaeologists say Bible, Quran &Torah are Egyptian myth!!!
Uploaded on Jun 22, 2010
zeitgeist and acharya s are backed up by the history channel


--The myth of Osiris originated in Syria and was brought by Syrians to Egypt. The oldest stories of the Bible are from ancient Sumeria "Epic of Gilgamesh" and the original Garden of Eden. There you will find the oldest recorded language. So we are looking at the Middle East for the origins of the above religions.
--Sumerian writing pre-dates Egyptian. As well as religion.
--Religion is there to cope with fears; Science is there to eradicate. 



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:26 am
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No, I know about these Egyptian and Sumerian tablets. For your info, History is my favorite subject since Elementary days.

Maybe you didn't understand my reply.

My replies were rhetorics, if you understand what it is:

"""How come people forget the most important events of our world? How come people forget the things most valuable facts in our history? Do you think people just forget about tons of evidences and stories about sumerian and egyptian facts in the past? That's ridiculous.

It so absurd to think that people in the past possessed these stories and facts but when they were presented a book (bible) then they forget about sumerian stories? Is that what you think happen? Foolishness!"""

Did I mentioned I discredit Sumerian and Egyptian histories? I don't think so! So please understand it before judging me that I don't know about ancient histories! LOL


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And by the way, I watched all the Zeitgeist DVD and I still have copies of it. So I'm familiar with it. And it was been refuted many times. Go Google it since you are fond of doing it.

And for Dr. Ray Hagins? The one who you listened to and idolized maybe? He has no credibility. He was refuted and didn't even provide any rebuttal.. So here it goes, believing on something and someone who's agenda is just to discredit Chriistianity. LOL

You may check this link if you have time:

http://benstanhope.blogspot.com/2010/03 ... agins.html

http://benstanhope.blogspot.com/2013/03 ... etter.html

Take time to watch it.

How can someone telling people that he holds the truth but can not even provide accurate evidences of his claims? Foolishness again!

And do read this:

http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/jesusnarr.html


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ah..ok.. yea sorry... i misunderstood.. how can ppl forget etc.. sorry @ that..

Sumerian tablets were discovered in 1975..only 40 years ago... i don't expect there to be much of a following..do you?


ya have to remember that after constintine made christianity the State religion.. now the priests had the power of the Emperor behind them..they went on a rampage burning librarys, and all written material-that did not conform to the new Catholic Creed. You were killed for possessing anything Gnostic-or contrary to that of the Creed. So with the murders, mass murders, the burning of material..ending in finally burning the witches in USA.. The Inquisition ends.. remember at about 400ad.. with the attack on all "Contra-Creed" material.. it plunged Europe and the mostly known world at that time.. into the dark ages that lasted for almost 1,000 years. there was no new popular literature coming from other parts of the world.. Roman empire into decline

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_(historiography)
900 years of darkness..

Enter Reformation[edit]
During the Protestant Reformation of the 16th and 17th centuries, Protestants wrote of the Middle Ages as a period of Catholic corruption. Just as Petrarch's writing was not an attack on Christianity per se — along with his humanism, he was deeply occupied with the search for God — neither was this an attack on Christianity: it was a drive to restore what Protestants saw as biblical Christianity.

The Magdeburg Centuries was a work of ecclesiastical history compiled by Lutheran scholars and published between 1559 and 1574. Devoting a volume to each century, it covered the first thirteen centuries of Christianity up to 1298. The work was virulently anti-Catholic. Identifying the Papacy as the Antichrist, it painted a "dark" picture of church history after the 5th century, characterizing it as "increments of errors and their corrupting influences".

Enter Inquisition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition
The Inquisition is[1] a group of institutions within the judicial system of the Roman Catholic Church whose aim is to combat heresy. It started in 12th-century France to combat the spread of religious sectarianism,
ENDING: The institution of the Inquisition persisted until the early 19th century (except within the Papal States) after the Napoleonic wars in Europe and after the Spanish American wars of independence in the Americas. The institution survived as part of the Roman Curia but was given the new name "Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office" in 1904. In 1965 it became the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

personally..as a fact, also as a joke.. i would people forget about the egyptian stuff.. coz mainly christianity and the church are too busy murdering people @ 100 million people for 1,000+ years..
the majority live in fear..
and printed material about Egyptian history never seriously appeared until about 1820..then it began to be studied..

yes.. zightgiest ..does leave alot to be desired.. it enters and ends with a bag full of generalities... and really not very credible..

and the church had a great foothold on the western world for almost 2,000 years..
...

@Ben Stanhope,, his blog.. funny how the majority of reply's on his blog.. Call BEN an idiot..

AnonymousSeptember 24, 2011 at 3:21 AM
Even the hebrew language came from the egyptian hieroglyphs. You'll admit that they were "enslaved" there, a proposition that has no historical support, but you can't see the cultural influences? Even with the babylonian stories, you can see parallels between the epics of gilgamesh and noah's ark. Ben, you are trying to get Dr. Hagins to prove things he admits are myths. The burden of proof rests on you to prove the earth is only 6000 years old, "god" came through a virgin down to die only to come back to life and leave again just to rapture people who believe this, and everyone else will burn. You have no proof, only "faith". Would God intentionally trick poeple? All Dr. Hagins is saying is that your religion, which was forced on African Americans through slavery, has concepts from earlier myths. It's not authentic. Learn hebrew and then read the torah and tanakh. You'll learn alot. The bible talks about unicorns! I haven't seen one. (Numbers 24:8 kjv)


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@ Hagins..
yes i'm aware of the serapis letter
where not all reference to the letter is made
its followers calling itself "christians" etc..etc..

and Ben Stanhope is of no major importance
his claim to fame is a couple de-bunk videos.. and some pamphlets..7 on scribd..


BS = Ben Stanhope..
errors and mistakes exposed/// still wet behind the ears i guess..
obviously this guy calls him an idiot and jack-off-ripoff-artist..
whatever..


none the less..
it does not refute Hagins works, his teachings or his message..

yes the jews dont mention jesus and mary..
they always knew who they were..
they never were expecting a messiah..

they too are also a fabrication.. nomads.
Hagins has a Doctorate and Minister for over 25 years... and Stan-no-hope is...what?
a wannabe? here today-gone today as well...lol flash in the pan


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even the bible says Abraham is an allegory

http://biblehub.com/galatians/4-24.htm

Book of Galatians, which is the earliest book of the New Testament. The thirteen letters of Paul were written, distributed, practiced, and called the gospel at least twenty years before the gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written. In it, Paul speaks of "my gospel," saying: "I did not receive it from a man, nor was I taught it, it came by revelation of Jesus Christ." Then he tells this story: "Abraham had two sons, one by a slave and one by a free woman. The son of the slave was born according to the flesh, the son of the free woman by the promise. This is an allegory: these two women are two covenants. The one who bears the child by promise is Jerusalem from above." This is the state called Sarah.

Paul states quite boldly here that the story of Abraham, Hagar, and Sarah is an allegory. And an allegory is a story told as if it were true, leaving the one who hears (or reads) it to discover its symbolic representation and learn its lesson. Hagar and Sarah symbolize two covenants, one bringing in slavery and one freedom.


The bible isnt to be taken literally..

and the Gospels were..FROM PAULS MIND...STUCK IN THE SINS OF THE FLESH

For Paul, being saved was radically different than what the traditional Christian message presents to us today; it was an event so life-transforming that it brought about an other-worldly experience most modern-day Christians could hardly conceive of, much less believe in. It was a powerful mystical phenomenon that words cannot describe, and it was about a self-realization so profound that it even changed his understanding of reality. Many of today’s mystics can empathize, but such language might scare away a traditional Christian. Why? Because doctrine, dogma, and creed has muddled the true Christ experience Paul preaches for a more watered-down version. The Christ experience Paul taught was about looking WITHIN. The Christ experience taught in most of today’s churches is more about looking without. In essence, it’s just smoke and mirrors.

Stolen from Egypt..



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Are you telling me that these Sumerian & Egyptian facts were just discovered recently because their copies were only confined in those libraries in Europe? Foolishness!!

Then how do you explain the similarities of stories from other places in Sumerian & Egyptian texts? Ah, I see! They might read it from the Libraries when they visited Europe before it was burned or someone handed copies of it.. Ridiculous.. That's the flaw of your argument. You are thinking that these facts were just only confined on those burned libraries. And without those libraries, no text can be found from other places, not until recently. Oh come on. Europe might be the center of civilization at that time but it wasn't the only one.


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Everyone who tries to continually put literal thoughts on this so-called discoveries, whether it’s “It literally happened” or “It literally did not happen.”

I love watching people go back and forth discussing all their ego-boosting tidbits of info that purports to show they’re “schooled” in all of this and know the answer.

You'll need to learn to read between the lines (yes, even you who already claim to do so).

Put the academia aside (it’s a perfectly great tool, but only 50% of the truth) while you step outside of your comfort zones and approach reality as it exists beyond the confines of a 5th edition university text-book.

It's so amusing to think that lots of books (Sumerian & Egyptian texts) against one textbook (Bible), but no damaged has been done to the Bible. Why is that?

No evidence could ever destroy even a jot in the bible. You know why my friend? Because it is the Word of God! Hallelujah!!!


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Do you want me to believe about this Sumerian Kings' List which contains the age and reign of each king?

How can you comprehend a king's age of 18 thousand? Do you really believe that there was a Sumerian king who lived this long? Foolishness again! A king whose age is 24,000. One king who is 15,000 years old? Ridiculous. At least the Bible's age is believable compare to these Sumerian so-called facts. Come on. How do you explain that?

Here's the truth of the matter: The Sumerian King List still puzzles historians after more than a century of research!!! Now this is fact! LOL


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When faced with the question as to whether the Bible accurately records ancient history in Genesis 1–11 or was derived from some other "ancient" document, we first need to apply a solemn reminder. God's Word has made the ultimate and justifiable claim for itself that none of these other ancient texts has made. The Bible repeatedly asserts to be the perfect Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21; Psalm 19:7; 119:160). If the Bible borrowed from ancient mythologies, this claim would be called into question.

All over the world we find cultural legends and myths that closely resemble certain accounts in Scripture, such as the Creation, the Fall, the Flood, and the Tower of Babel accounts.Oftentimes, these accounts are used as an external confirmation of the credibility of Scripture.

If one accepts the account of Scripture that we are all of "one blood" (Acts 17:26), he should also accept the biblical account that all human heritage goes back to the city of Babel where all human population once lived after the global Flood of Noah's day. We would expect to find common accounts of history (such as Creation and the Flood) within the stories and traditions of today's people groups that once lived together in one place after the great Flood. Given years of cultural diversity as mankind spread throughout the world, it is also not surprising that these stories have taken on their own cultural influences in the retelling.


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Even as we look at the Babylonian flood epic, we find differences within the various Middle Eastern versions that have been uncovered. H. V. Hilprecht from the University of Pennsylvania in 1909 (Hilprecht was part of the University's Babylonian expeditions and excavations) uncovered the earliest fragment of the flood epic. After carefully uncovering and translating each cuneiform character, Hilprecht made the following statement: "In its preserved portion, it showed a much greater resemblance to the Biblical Deluge Story than any other fragment yet published."

Hilprecht's statement helps us understand the ongoing corruption of the Babylonian story compared to the authentic preservation of the biblical account and does not support the conclusion that the Near Eastern mythology should be attributed as the primary source of the biblical account. The inconsistencies within the texts themselves point to an unsurprising lack of reliability in using them as a gauge on the authenticity of the biblical account.


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A brief look at just a few particulars of both the Sumerian kings list and the flood epics will show the many inconsistencies that forfeit any consideration of Babylonian myth as a source for Scripture.

The list of pre-flood Sumerian kings has some curious similarities to the list of patriarchs in Genesis. For example, Genesis and the Sumerian list both refer to the Flood. Both refer to men of great ages, and when the differing numeric systems are considered, they provide similar totals. The lists, however, have three significant differences:

1. The ages and lengths of reigns of the Sumerian kings are much longer than that of the biblical patriarchs, as some of the Sumerian kings supposedly reigned for more than 30,000 years. After discovering the Sumerians used a sexagesimal system5 rather than a decimal system of counting, the longer life spans in the Sumerian list are converted to a very similar number with the life spans of eight correlating patriarchs in the biblical account.

2. The Sumerian kings list has only eight in the list while the Bible gives 10 patriarchs before the Flood (including Noah). Although a close correlation exists between these lists, it seems the Sumerian list has omitted the first man and the man who survived the Flood (Adam and Noah). The similarities between the other eight men make this a reasonable consideration.

3. The Bible has a clear difference in the quality of information, the spiritual and moral superiority of the patriarchs, and the completeness of the list. The Genesis account explains in great detail the struggle of mankind with sin and the effects of the Curse. It highlights those who walked with God and also provides details about humanity apart from the patriarchs. Such detail is not found in the Sumerian kings list.

While a study of the Sumerian list is a fascinating journey in discovering the way Sumerians looked upon their ancestry and how their numeric and commercial systems worked, the quality of the biblical text is distinctly superior in both completeness, information, and spiritual and moral quality. The biblical text does not reflect a borrowing from an inferior text. If anything, the very mention of this kings list that matches so closely to the biblical account is a confirmation of biblical authenticity.


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The Near Middle Eastern Flood epics have three main versions: the Sumerian Epic of Ziusudra, the Akkadian Atrahasis Epic, and the Babylonian Gilgamesh Epic. The Gilgamesh Epic is the most complete with 12 tablets decipherable and the eleventh tablet with the most complete flood account of the three versions.

These flood epics reveal many internal inconsistencies, which rule them out from being the source of the Genesis text.

Points of Difference To Consider:

1. The Difference Is in the Detail:

The Bible specifically states that Noah took two of every kind of land-dwelling animal and seven of some animals onto the Ark. The Genesis account is clear and realistic when comparing the animals and the size of the Ark. The Gilgamesh Epic is an unreliable account because it states Utnapishtim was to take the seed of all living creatures, both wild and tame, that he had available. This leaves us with no information about how many animals were likely on board the boat or whether all of the necessary kinds would have been represented for repopulation. The Bible is specific concerning the Ark's animal cargo:

You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of animals that are not clean two, a male and his female; also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth. (Genesis 7:2–3, NASB)

The detailed biblical account explains that the Flood began as all the fountains of the great deep broke open, that it covered the whole earth to the extent of the highest mountains, and that it killed every man and land dwelling, air breathing animal of the earth (Genesis 7:21–22). The biblical detail shows that the whole earth was covered by water coming from both above and below and that it rained continuously for 40 days and nights and the waters continued to rise until the 150th day. The Gilgamesh Epic, while stating the devastation of the flood on humanity, does not specifically detail the full geographical extent and depth of the Flood. Also, it is unreasonable to expect so much water coverage in just six days of rain.

The biblical dimensions of the Ark are detailed and consistent with a vessel that could float in rough waters and could house the animals described. The dimensions of the boat in The Gilgamesh Epic amount to more of a cube shaped vessel with the beam equaling the length. Although we know it had seven stories (decks), it is impossible to determine the full size of the vessel. Logistically, this boat could not float in a stable manner in rough seas and would not be structurally reliable.

The Bible is consistently reliable on the account of the birds that were released. It is logical to send out a raven before a dove, given that ravens are scavengers while doves feed only on plants. The intervals of release of the dove are consistent with the expectation of having a drained land for vegetation and occupants, and this correlates with the dove returning with a freshly picked olive leaf and then the dove not returning at all. By contrast, The Gilgamesh Epic mentions a dove, then a swallow, and finally a raven. There are no intervals mentioned to assess the appropriate time length for flights, and sending a raven last is questionable in that ravens may have been able to survive as scavengers.

2. The Character of the "Gods":

In The Gilgamesh Epic, the gods are impatient and impulsive. They do not like the uproar and babel of mankind and decide to destroy humanity. The gods have no justifiable moral reason to destroy humanity. In contrast, the God of the Bible sent the Flood on an already cursed world because of man's wicked heart that only desired evil. God's judgment in the light of sin is righteous and just.

The Babylonian gods lie and tell Utnapishtim to lie to other humans about the coming wrath. The Gilgamesh Epic promotes polytheistic mythology, whereas the Bible presents monotheistic theology. The many gods in The Gilgamesh Epic differ in ideas and motivations, and they seek to thwart each other. The God of the Bible is holy, pure, unchanging, and cannot lie. These are just a few of the character differences between the biblical God and the description of the gods in the Babylonian myth.6

Lastly, it is important to note that in The Gilgamesh Epic the god Ea tells Utnapishtim to save himself through the ark by means of deceiving the other gods. In the Bible God Himself provides the plans for the Ark as the means to save Noah and his family. Furthermore, Noah was a preacher of righteousness rather than deceit (2 Peter 2:5).

Even based solely on comparison between the perfect Word of God and the imperfect pagan myths, it is absurd to think the descriptions in the Babylonian texts could be the source of the Genesis account in the inspired Word of God.

Conclusion:

It is not difficult to rule out the Ancient Near Eastern mythological texts from being the source of influence for the account of Genesis. While Genesis is reliable, they are not. While Genesis shows consistency of our God's righteous and sovereign character, the mythological texts show the gods as little more than squabbling people, deceiving each other and humanity and lacking sovereign control. While the Genesis Flood account gives enough credible information to allow for historical and geological confirmation, the mythological texts provide little that can be confirmed, and what is provided does not make sense logically or scientifically.

The similarities among Ancient Near Eastern mythologies and between The Gilgamesh Epic and the Bible make sense from a biblical worldview. Christians should not be surprised to see people groups all over the world with their own accounts of the Creation, the Fall, the Flood, men of great ages, and even the Tower of Babel. The accounts can tell us people once had the same record or eyewitness of a common event handed down from a generation that was once congregated in the same place at the same time.

The Gilgamesh Epic tells a sad tale of a man (who was supposedly part god) looking desperately for everlasting life. This was a man who knew of great men of old who lived long lives and supposedly became gods, and he wanted to attain this status himself. He had a desperate desire to avoid death. A Christian can hear tales such as this and consider them in light of biblical truth. The Bible shows us that men did indeed live for longer periods of time, but as mankind became further distanced from a perfect original creation, life expectancies shortened. The Bible reveals the devastation of sin in the judgment of death and mankind's continual need for a Savior. The Bible gives us the account of the worldwide Flood that covered the entire earth and shows both God's faithfulness in judgment and in salvation by protecting a line of humanity for the promised Messiah.

In the light of Scripture, we see confirmation in mythology around the world that the Bible is indeed God's Word and the only reliable truth. In the message of God's Word, we see Him stepping into this world and taking upon Himself the wrath we deserve. Only through the consistent Word of the Bible can we know salvation is only received through faith in Jesus Christ alone.


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Now the story of Abraham is an allegory? How do you explained the clay tablets discovered that records about Abraham. Then it is just show that these recent findings were just a myth or largely fabricated to discredit the Biblical account?

That's the problem with people like you who is just reading the passage out of context. Please read between the lines and in context.

Here's an explanation of what you think as Allegory:

You may think that Paul distorted scripture and gotten away with it. Is he asserting some apostolic right to read into the scriptures any interpretation he feels the Holy Spirit has shown him? Some interpreters have given up and accepted that he did.

Other commentators speculate that perhaps Paul’s opponents were using the Sarah-Hagar story in their own rhetoric, and Paul is attempting to turn their own logic back at them. If so, he did a lousy job. Using an allegory to try to convince someone who disagrees is a stupid argument.

Here is a better explanation.

We must start by recounting Paul’s argument so far, beginning back in 3.6. He has been arguing that those who have faith are Abraham’s true descendants according to the promise given to Abraham in Genesis 12. They are therefore no longer slaves, but are now Abraham’s heirs.

Here are the relevant verses leading up to our passage:

3.7 – Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.
3.9 – So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
3.14 – …in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
3.29 – And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
4.7 – Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

So what’s going on in this passage?

The first thing to notice is that the use of Isaac and Ishmael is not a “random story,” as I suggested above. Paul has been talking about being Abraham’s true descendants. This story is about Abraham’s first descendants. Isaac and Ishmael literally embodied the point Paul was making. Isaac was born in accordance with the promise of Genesis 12; Ishmael wasn’t. What happened to Isaac is paradigmatic for what it means to be Abraham’s descendant by faith through the promise.

The second thing to notice is that, in typical Pauline style, he states his conclusion at the beginning of the passage, and then jumps back to show the logic that leads to the conclusion. In this case, his summary statement (v.21) is, “Do you not listen to the law?” The only quotation from the law (the Penteteuch) will not come until the end of the passage (v.30): “Cast out the bondwoman and her son. For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”

The argument is that Abraham’s children are not all Abraham’s heirs – only the sons of the promise are heirs. Paul uses this verse to confirm the argument he has been making thus far. It is theologically relevant to his overall argument. Believers are brothers with Isaac in some true sense that is not merely metaphorical (v.28). Just as Paul applies Abraham’s blessing to believers (3.9), so he also applies Isaac’s promise to believers.

But there is still the question of the gap between v.21 and v.28. Why didn’t he go straight to this verse? Why digress into a discussion of Sarah and Hagar? And why complicate it by saying they are allegorical?

The answer, I believe, is best found by starting at the end of the passage and tracing Paul’s logic backwards.

The first clue is to notice that Paul has altered the Genesis quotation in v.30 by replacing the phrase “my son Isaac,” with “the son of the free woman.” Of course this does not change the sense of the passage, since both phrases refer to the same person, Isaac. But Paul uses the new vocabulary to draw out the implicit dichotomy between bondslave and free. The language of “bondslave” in reference to Hagar was already explicit in the Genesis text.

The dichotomy between slave and free is exactly the theme he has been discussing until this point in the letter. But Genesis 21:10 introduces a new element into Paul’s discussion – two mothers. So before he can give the quotation, he must first set up the significance of the mothers for Abraham’s heirs. After all, believers may be Isaac’s brothers, but they are not Sarah’s sons. This part of the verse would be meaningless in the Galatian’s context – unless Paul can find a valid scriptural interpretation of the mother that applies theologically to believers.

What does Isaiah have to say about it?

Paul finds just such an interpretation in Isaiah 54.1 (v.27), where Jerusalem is depicted as a barren woman who suddenly has numerous children. This provides Paul with theological grounds for associating “the free woman” with “Jerusalem” in reference to believers.

But everybody knows that gentile believers are not accepted by the Jews in Jerusalem. So before he can introduce the Isaiah passage, he must make one more move. Paul looks to Jewish theology that says that the earthly temple is a copy of the heavenly temple (cf. Ex 25.12, Is 6), and thus the earthly Jerusalem is a copy of the heavenly Jerusalem. He calls them the “Now-Jerusalem,” (Νυν Ἰερουσαλήμ) and the “Above-Jerusalem,” (Ἄνω Ἰερουσαλήμ). So he explicitly links the bondwoman with the earthly Jerusalem and the free woman with the heavenly Jerusalem (v.25-6).

At the same time, he ties all of this back to his argument in chapter 2, that Abraham and Moses represent two covenants (v.24). Notice that this is not a contrast between a new and an old covenant, since Abraham’s covenant of faith is older than the Mosaic covenant.

Conclusion

The important thing to recognize is that every logical move makes is theologically justified, either by (a) the argument he has already made in the earlier part of the letter, or (b) interpretations made by the prophets, specifically Isaiah. But while it is theologically justified, it is not textually justified by the Genesis text alone. Paul is aware that his argument is not exegetically sound apart from the theological argument. Thus he introduces this section of Galatians (v.24) by declaring that he has allegorized (ἀλληγορούμενα) the account.

So Galatians 4.21-31 is allegory but it is not fanciful allegory. It is an interpretation that is theologically warranted by an intertextual reading of scripture. Paul was merely drawing out implications which were inherent in the Old Testament itself. It is not the stupid argument I once thought it to be.


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why would u laff at the sumerian kings list of rulers for 17,000 years. or 38,000 years?
I'm sure you're aware that one is stitchens translations of being approx 438,000 years, and other scholars translations of approx a 50,000 year period.
why didn't you mention this?

as far as gods word.. the MYTHS existed BEFORE there was any so called "god's word"

For the Reserection of Osiris... it was alrady in the hands of the peope as coffin textx as early as 2,000bce, appearing as the egyptian book of the dead from approx 1,500bce

and taught in The Oracles at Delphi by Plutarch in Rome in the 1st century AD..
I'm sure you are aware the Sumerian kings were not from earth?
its right up there with the "foolish" records in the bible of people living to be 800 and 900 years old.

.and as you state above quote:

In the light of Scripture, we see confirmation in mythology around the world that the Bible is indeed God's Word and the only reliable truth.
YES... BECAUSE THE MYTH'S EXISTED 1ST!! THEN LATER STOLEN AND CALLED "GOD'S WORD"...how stupid...lolol... which came first..gods word or myths? myths came first...so how can they be "god's word" (*what website did you cut and paste this from???)??? "mythology confirms gods word as truth"??
its like robbing a bank and calling all the cash "yours"...LOL..

there were no humans around to hear "god speak"...lol.. more logic

In the message of God's Word, we see Him stepping into this world and taking upon Himself the wrath we deserve. Only through the consistent Word of the Bible can we know salvation is only received through faith in Jesus Christ alone.


Last edited by spytekpro on Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:51 pm
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So Galatians 4.21-31 is allegory but it is not fanciful allegory.

allegory is still allegory.
like sin is still sin. and lies are lies.
there is no "greater or lessor" degrees.... a "Fanciful allegory"? what is that exactly?

maybe sort of like.. "being a little bit Fanciful PREGNANCY"???

1 word, one lie.. 2 words..2 lies..and on and on it goes..
i wonder if the Inquisitions were.. "fanciful" ones".???

allegory is story.
it can't be fact. it cant be both fact and a story/fable..


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:10 pm
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it must be remembered..
this is FANCIFUL biblical literature..
NOT.. historical fact literature..

the bible is allegory, and a whole host of descriptive "non literal" words..
parables, allegory, etc... only to be understood by those that understand the mysteries as it teaches on many levels..
it was never to be taken literally..it even says in the bible-HOW to read the bible..



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:26 pm
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just like king harods so called killing of newborn infants..

there is not ONE historian which records any such event..
another "fanciful tale"..that never happened..



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:18 pm
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The answer, I believe, is best found by starting at the end of the passage and tracing Paul’s logic backwards.

ok...let me drink a dozen beers, and zap my brain with 220vac 50hz a couple times.. and i'll try...lol....

what website is that??



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:10 pm
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Why do you care about what website I took those things? Why? Where do you get your source? You dug it with yourself? You possessed copies of what you presented? How stupid of you questioning the source as if all the things you posted were yours. LOL

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:48 pm
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i was just trying to determine the source of the ignorant statement of
"In the light of Scripture, we see confirmation in mythology around the world that the Bible is indeed God's Word and the only reliable truth. "

I have my answer.
ok thank you
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Ammusingly, and providing a great insight into the contortions a religious mind will go to they also say:

"In the light of Scripture, we see confirmation in mythology around the world that the Bible is indeed God's Word and the only reliable truth."

So, that something exists in mythology and usually predating scripture we end up with an answer:

"Burning fire creates wood"
............................................


(*words of a mental patient..)
actually i think all mythology predates scripture..
including nuno


Last edited by spytekpro on Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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